| Rotten (3). and Abe: "I want you to do it". IDK, I really wanted to expound on the original movie and fix the plot holes, I'm just a time travel nerd. One flies off at the end of the movie, one wakes up in the attic, and the other.... Not a time machine the size of a warehouse. Help clean the dishes, sit around afterward in the living room to relax and unwind. It helps to remind oneself that the premise for time travel in reality is not understood at all. That's not entirely accurate. If you have to stay sequestered in the present, before you travel to the past, then you don’t acquire the foreknowledge. They say that they may have told him if it was an emergency. Or do anything to cause my friend in this timeline who already exists to not go back at 3pm. In other words, whatever originally happened at the party was indirectly Aaron's fault. I would also like to know more about the punched holes - how are they significant later in the film? Who would override who? They were more interested in working on a superconductor that could conduct at room temperature, something they felt would have been much more marketable and therefore profitable. I'll try to read this when I am not so tired and write some feedback. So what's up with this scene here? Now, the way one winds up with doubles is by NOT sticking to this procedure and somehow interfering with their past double entering the box as they did, thus resulting in their displacement in the timeline. Both Aaron Prime and Aaron 2 exist between noon and midnight friday. There, all time-jumps occur in the same continuum - whatever changes the time-traveler makes in the past have already occurred. That is why Abe 1 is oblivious he is talking to Aaron 2 in the beginning because that particular Abe never traveled that far back yet. You stopped him from getting into the box. Maybe. But you know, thinking more deeply into it, perhaps that's only the sort of thing that would happen if that were to be taken a few steps further. Abe and Aaron are not the geniuses, they did contribute, but it was not their idea and not even a project they wished to be a part of to begin with, apparently these two had cost the other two in the past and their was a clear division in the company from the kitchen table discussion. I have been wondering if that was done just to disorient the viewer because it doesn't seem possible that either of them had gone back that far at that point. Though, to be fair, this is the type of film that works best as an independent film, not something that's got a big budget. I don't think it really matters who the phone call is directed to. So was Rachel's ex-boyfriend, who walked into the party brandishing a shotgun. Aaron Three tries to subdue Hooded Aaron in turn, but this time he is too exhausted, and Hooded Aaron wins. This might result in an entanglement between the two. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Who would be in the same timeline as who? Let's break down exactly what happens solely within the Granger event itself: Abe and Aaron get in their car on their way to punch Plaats in the face. Aaron is wearing an earpiece, but his reactions and demeanor seem genuine and there a few scenes that same day when he's not wearing an earpiece at all. He took yet another time machine with him, which he set up as Failsafe Box C (05:30 Monday). The jealous ex is arrested and jailed. It is Hooded Aaron who is the narrator of the story. Back to the situation where you DON'T go into the box. So much easier than going in yourself and doubling money by trading in the stock market (forex would've been better). I couldn't follow all of the subtle plot lines at all. I like the theory that someone mentioned above: he is trying to ultimately control his universe. The remark about crushed ice at the start of the film is more about establishing scenery. The story unfolds from a particular perspective - Abe's perspective - starting from a particular timeline (a timeline where Abe did not go back to gas himself, but a timeline already altered by Aaron). There are three running failsafe boxes which evidently nobody has thought to shut down, in addition to Abe Prime's original Box A, which hasn't been activated yet but is nevertheless operational. Rather than getting "erased from existence" as in a movie like Back to the Future or Jumper, he gets struck into a coma. And he sees of course his double turning on the machine. |, October 15, 2015 By going back they can only alter the lives of their copies, their future selves are simply left stranded and alone. This is why when Aaron is demonstrating to Abe that the machine was stabilized Abe confirmed with him that he "only changed the box, the plate stays the same," because he wanted to ensure anything Aaron did to the box only pertained to their portion of the project and didn't affect Robert and Philip's. Nice article! The reason I say this is because the only purpose Granger originally served Aaron and Abe was to finance the development of their project. What then? So, we would have Aaron Prime, Aaron the Narrator, Aaron the Recorder and Aaron the ExStopper at a minimum. I don't know what you mean by "prevailing theory", but it's pretty clear to me that by the end of the film, the shotgun/Lauren/Granger situation is totally resolved... leaving Abe and Aaron with a different and much bigger set of problems, which cannot be resolved using time travel. About the end, it could be Aaron 2 planning to life inside a machine so "you will not find me". It looks like there's TWO Abes here... For example, we see that one Abe gets up and Aaron is heard saying 'Abe, it's 7'. That's what makes the film so great, it's open to endless interpretation. You're almost there! The real twist of The Invitation's ending is far more unnerving and complicated. He uses one as a new failsafe machine for himself which he starts just after arriving. He travels to his home and gasses his double in bed with the nitrous oxide. Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make is the fact, for the most part, when people think of sci-fi, they think of these big-budget, special effects driven films. Basically, the story focuses on two sets of people being stuck in a time loop for 35 years. How is it possible to relive the same day more than once without creating endless doubles? To send MANY people back in time? The other possibility would be that if he decided not to enter the box upon seeing himself exit, then he would simply be watching an Abe from a parallel timeline that wound up changing his mind and traveling anyway, resulting in a doubling of himself." The subjective experience of time while in the box is described as parabolic, meaning one is oscillating backward and forward, backward and forward instead of just forward in time. As they climb into the car, however, they realise they are being followed by Thomas Granger, Abe's girlfriend's dad and the project's main source of funding. Timelines can be dramatically altered without "ripping a hole in the space time continuum." The film indicates that it took Aaron a total of 3 attempts to get the outcome of the party just right, (according to his liking), with the original version of events at the party not having Aaron been there at all. @Tulsa: I think someone kinda answered this already. Here's what he said (from the Village Voice in 2004: http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-10-05/film/a-primer-primer/2/): This sense of relief, however, is immediately undercut by the slow reveal of red lanterns lighting up the darkness, hinting nefariously at the vast conspiracy that was initially thought to be a small, contained, isolated incident. That we feel we have each been given a glimpse into what this remarkable technology would actually look like through the imagination of a highly creative mind. They wanted to see if they could deliberately alter the past, and if so, what the result would be. By now, Aaron already has his own box built: Box B. 2) After the last scene at the fungus lab, right after Aaron asks "Wait digital or old mechanical? Why would he use someone if only Aaron and Abe know about the boxes? Thanks! I'm fascinated to see that this movie is still being discussed in such detail. here's a silly theory regarding the granger incident: If you started the machine today and left it running for ten years, then potentially you stop the machine in ten years time, and fill it up with rayguns and iPhone25's and $50 billion in used 2012 banknotes(Without getting in yourself), that stuff could magically appear in five minutes time. Coming Soon. During the day spent at the hotel, Aaron's cell phone rings. Perhaps exposure to some sort of... let's call it radiation... produced by the box causes the tingling sensation and other symptoms by doing damage to their bodies. I also thought of what I think might be an inconsistency, what happens to Aaron 1 when he uses the fail safe device and then relives that week, this time recording all the conversations as Aaron 2. The Granger incident: This is a mistake, since Aaron is supposed to be sequestered. Of course, they can always just kill them too! Aren't Abe 2 and Aaron 2 still around? It is indeed concerning there are two Grangers now, but bear in mind the final timeline we see being set is from the perspective of Abe 2, who has returned to Monday of that week, before the Granger incident occurs. Wouldn't I always see the end result? I think you misunderstand how it works. I'll have to watch it again when I'm in a better state of mind. The brief, fleeting image of a sea of red lights in the darkness is immensely disturbing and incredibly powerful . Get out of Boxes at 8:45(now are Abe 1.5 and Aaron 1.5). Good stuff, thanks for the speedy response. How often did you have to watch the film in order to write it? "2011-07-03 05:32:59 by Peter: So what's up with this scene here?". Thank you! It's not mentioned in this wrie-up and I didn't see anything about it in the comments either. Randall Munroe is a quitter. Just enjoy the movie, doin't suck all the fun out of it. Coming Soon. it's not a particularly elegant theory. Cinemark Because current-timeline-Granger is not going to get in the box since his daughter doesn't die in this timeline. Would you immediately exit the box before even making the trip you were about to take? http://cdn.unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/primer-chart.jpg Aaron is so smart that he knows he needs to keep as close to the same appearance as possible to try to keep the conversations the same. Thus, when second Aaron makes the phone call and says that he can say what he did when he went, he must be wrong. Note that in the expermiment near christmas time they actually measure the weight of the egg and the engineers observe a drop in weight by about 10%, no increase. 1. Abe is the source of Granger's paradox, he called him, he came back in time, and around and around we go. If the traveler does not interfere with the course of these events, then presumably his past double will do just as he did and vacate the timeline by entering their box, thereby leaving the earliest version of someone to remain. Just vague ideas as to what was going on. Then they would use the information they obtained to play the stock market from home (or wherever). Abe Prime wakes up in his bathroom after being gassed for 24 hours by his double. You or I, (or any other physical object), will continue to subjectively experience time passing because we have no choice, our atoms are structured this way. The Abe and Aaron that punched Plaats would be the only Abe and Aaron in that timeline now, and be able to continue their travels as usual. At least that's what I think. That day, make their successful trades. "The permutations were endless." When Granger turned off the box and got in, Abe had already turned off the still-active box later in the afternoon. Obviously at some point in the future, Aaron or Abe told Granger about the boxes. Because that makes little sense what is he gonna take back that needs that Much space? in the mirror moving backwards inside the box. Later on we see the cereal he eats for breakfast (always), and supermarket shopping, and filling up at the gas station. --Thus preventing the event altogether. Extended exposure to each other would definitely not be recommended. Granger likely has called i.d. The two men and two timelines find themselves entangled in the machine. *is stupid* I still don't understand why their hands going into the machine is relevant :\ It's been agreed that they each take turns to put an idea forward. Job done? I don't wanna say it's about the 'recklessness' of youth, but in many ways it is and how that recklessness might manifest itself in ways that negatively affect their lives when they are older. Why would Aaron built a new LARGE time machine in the end of the film??? Abe is in love with Kara. Useful explanation thanks, but my head is still resisting the knowledge. I’m probably not understanding the film correctly, but I have a logic problem with how you acquire foreknowledge of a particular day’s stock market trading in order to game the stock market & make millions, because: one iteration of you has to stay sequestered. One confusing thing in the movie is that they call their (causally) past ones their doubles. After they both say '1-2-3' and remove the case, the scene blacks out and changes, showing Abe unconscious on the floor and the sound of static can be heard. Then we see Abe getting up AGAIN and Aaron now says 'Abe, it's 7 at night'. So anyways, Abe5 says that's the reason he's staying behind, but Aaron6 knows that Abe has always envied the situation Aaron had with his family. Aaron raises the hypothetical of punching Joseph Platts in the face, then going back in time and telling himself not to, making it so that it never happens. So if we wanted to live the same day again and again and again, we'd have to keep stopping our past selves getting in the box and get in ourselves. If he doesn't wear the earpiece while recording he will not be able to record people's reactions to the earpiece when the same conversation comes up again. I imagine that a lot of people simply won't want to put in the effort and when I tried discussing it with my aunt (who watched the movie with me) it all definitely sounded a little convoluted. The problem is that this explanation -- from the horse's mouth -- is disregarded by the final scenes. So which box did Abe use to come back in time? Not bad for $7K, but would have been better if the director didn't take himself and the story so seriously. This way, each time an emergence occurs, alterations will appear and conflicts will ultimately influence the timeline until there are alternate possible outcomes, ad infinitum. It could also be an effect of exposure to time travel along with prolonged use of the device. Forgot your password? @Sepharion It’s really awful because I kind of have to say, “Well, that was actually three months before.” To try to explain the plot in that kind of weird detail it means that it didn’t work. They are recyclable," means that although you cannot re-enter a box you climbed out of, you can bring another box with you, activate it once you climb out, and later use it instead, travelling back to the same moment in time again - or a few minutes later, at any rate. The point of this is that even though they travel back in time, they keep their original lives by making their past selves travel back also, in a constant loop. This movie is among my favorites of all time. @Sepharion There is no reason to think that observer-dependent wave collapse plays any role here. The dialogue during these scenes reveals a few more noteworthy facts. Or maybe we might end up together, if I don't bother her machine. He took a machine that had been turned on at the earliest point and took it back with him in his machine, opened it and traveled back to that point. One particular point that Aaron raises is the problem of living in a universe which has been engineered by somebody else. That aside, we learn at the end that saving the party in fact wasn't the true motivation of Aaron's travel to Monday. It does seem odd though because if one or both of them had come back that far, a reminder of what time it is might be needed. Leaps and bounds better than the Prestige. Granted, whomever travels back in the failsafe box could be armed. But Primer says that there are infinite YOU's, all in sequence. If he had no intention of entering the box upon seeing himself exit it, then the probabilistic threshold would not be achieved and he wouldn't ever see himself exit if it meant he would never travel. firstly, knowing what we know about the characters and events, let's assume that the version of aaron we see in the final scene of the film in an aircraft hangar in france very quickly uses the time travel technology to acquire ridiculous amounts of money - somebody mentioned the idea of simply sending back information or technology from the future using the devices without even the need for aaron to enter the box himself Aaron Prime wakes up in his own attic after being drugged for 24 hours by his double. A 'third' you wouldn't occur until you prevented 'old you' from going and did not take 'old you's place then repeated that whole process yet another time. Coming Soon, Regal thus, if Aaron 2 gets killed at 11 p.m. on Friday, Aaron is dead. walking out of door B backwards at the same time that person(0) walks in through door B. As the survivors survey the Los Angeles hills, they are confronted with the sight of dozens of other red lanterns as far as the eye can see, indicating that theirs was but one such incident. None of this is temporally connected? it veers into the realm of fan fiction i suppose and it asks more questions than it seems to answer but for some reason i like to think that given the convoluted nature of the story and the many mysterious twists and turns it's a theory that might hold some water He took it for analysis and was told that the fungus was perfectly ordinary, but that the amount of growth he had seen was consistent with years of time passing, not days. This man is a different Thomas Granger who has come back in time using one of the boxes, probably exiting the box at 17:00 Thursday when Abe switched them on. To put the narrative simply, it's about learning from the mistakes of your past and how the characters, forgetting to learn from these mistakes, end up living through the same exact situation that they just got out of. But what we are ignoring is that at the very end of the film, Aaron is building a much larger box, one the size of an entire room. If there is ANY forum that is appropriate to vent our thoughts, theories and feelings about it, it would be this one. Terrence Malick's The New World doesn't have fans, just fanatics – John Patterson among them. @JIM See, this is the problem I have in the movie when Abe and Aaron travel back in *two separate boxes* and yet emerge *together* in the same new timeline. [Full review in Spanish], A movie you'll keep discussing long after seeing it. He felt it was foolish to risk getting killed at such a time. When you emerge from box A at the start of the week, you've got box B, /which has been running for a week/. 2: Wednesday night when Abe finds out that Aaron intervened at the party he doesn't question how he was able to. This confusion leads to that you cannot focus on the more difficult parts, and end up more confused. I get that if they go into the 17:00 box at 03:00 on Friday they can travel to 17:00 Thursday and then stop the kids from waking them up etc., but wont this cause them to have permanent Doubles? I'd hazard a guess that if indeed the large warehouse is to be a time machine, it could not only be used to take back large supplies of oxygen, food and supplies, it could also concievably be used to contain a dwelling, cars, helicopters, weapons, or ANY technology. The overall effect is a multiplying effect of the time experienced while inside the box. To answer your broader question, how can one relive the same day without endless doubles, that is at the heart of the dilemma with Carruth's time travel. - Power it up, intending to insert a diamond a few minutes later But it might be that their entire world is the product of much earlier time travel by completely unseen people. Rather, think of the interior of the box as a state in which an arrow of time does not exist. Then I'd wait around until the drawing, find out the winning numbers, then turn the box off and climb inside, then buy a ticket as soon as I get out. Anyone have any ideas? The only unknowns are exactly how long it took AaronPrime to figure out about the failsafe (though it's about as long as it would take him to grow a beard going backwards) and how many times it took them to get the party right (on purpose, since beardedhoodedAaron had snatched the coveted Prime Box and passport and absconded to Polynesia or wherever...), though the word "prescient" has some implications. We want to hear what you have to say but need to verify your account. We learn, however, that a third Aaron returns from the future and attempts to render Aaron 2 unconscious but is unsuccessful. Abe departs Box A at 08:45 Tuesday as expected, but Aaron gets jumpy towards the end of the ride, and exits Box B a minute or two early (or, from Abe's perspective, a minute or two late), suffering a severe physical reaction. It raises problems with overlapping the person with himself and to really aproach these kind of problems one should think on the level of individual particles and drop treating the person as one object. They loop back in time as normal. It stimulated a lot of interesting reads. There's an undeniable feeling that something is not quite right with the evening's festivities. @Jim: I think what I was trying to say but didn't, is that as it would be a seemingly pointless coincidence otherwise, the earpiece must be part of the cause. In all likelihood, time travel is impossible. And my head hurts! As far as the inconsistency you pointed out, good point, but I think a simple resolution for continuity here would be that Abe may very well have invited her to the party in the original timeline and just simply didn't go. But I really am not sure. The time you enter the box only dictates how long you'll spend in the box to travel back to the point it was turned on, which would be 9 am. Can you elaborate on the concept of recursion in terms of time-travel paradoxes? The first bench scene: Abe approaches Aaron one morning. It looks like there's TWO Abes here... For example, we see that one Abe gets up and Aaron is heard saying 'Abe, it's 7'. In theory, it might have possibly worked if they somehow convinced their doubles to leave the machines on and not restart them so that when they went back, they would be able to go as far back as 17:00 Thursday afternoon (the same emergence time of the duo that prevented the kids setting off the car alarms). i.e. I'm thinking something like this happened: In one timeline, Thomas Granger found out about the machine, and probably used the failsafe. If you have to stay sequestered once you arrive in the past, then you can’t action your foreknowledge by making trades. @Billy: I suppose if Carruth said that, then you are indeed right and my proposed theory (one of many) is totally wrong and off base. @Romain: Your breakdown of how the machine works in the film is accurate. He's the one who first used the failsafe behind his friends back. Awesome, awesome explanation. Given that the method of the machine's operation is contingent upon a fundamental premise,(which is one of "what has happened is going to happen," because events, although still linked, are now in an un-sequenced format), every event that occurs impacted by a trip backward in time is an event that has occurred prior to its cause. The way it is SUPPOSED to work is that the traveler turns on the machine, leaves for the duration of time they wish to travel back, return to enter the box, wait in it for an equal amount of time and exit the box. In the beginning, he is speaking to Aaron 2, who successfully plays out the timeline as he intended to originally. I saw this too and you are right... there are two at the end. That's a long freaking 'explanation'. What's relevant is that Abe and Aaron both stick their hands into the machine. @Sam: That is an interesting point, I have had the same thought myself. Aaron Three and Abe Two wind up at the airport. My friend will emerge from box B at 2pm, and I will emerge from box A at 1pm, but will we be in the same tieline or separate timelines? So which Aaron is this and where and when did he come from and why is he there and when does he intend to leave and where to? Yeah, sounds like it to me. The second time around, when Aaron did travel back to alter events at the party, he apparently rushed the gunman and claims he didn't fire then either. As 3rd Aaron he interacts with his past self (2nd Aaron) and convinces him to leave. Why should we take the same path ? So we go on what is presented by the storyteller. Just like using a brita, you get dust in the first few batches that you run through it. In fact, he was never originally at the party. Run box A for a week. If you put an object in the box, start the machine and stop it a minute later, the object will have spent approximately 1*1331 minutes in the box. Aaron is listening to March Madness on an earphone (and continues to do so for the rest of the day). The questions I don't understand are: When Abe prime and Aaron prime awake, what are there lives like, how will they react to what there counterparts did while they slept? It would also be the only way in which what I proposed would be possible, if Aaron had hooked up with one of those individuals and was able to travel farther back. I made the mistake of watching the film pissed at 2am. Again, the logistics would be a pain, but I believe the logic holds. What was he trying to accomplish? Since Prot had inconsistencies to his theory of light travel, I believe he was a brilliant ill man that suffered trauma. We know from the ensuing conversation between he and Aaron that it would have to be a serious emergency for him to do so, like if his daughter was murdered. Aaron 2 (and ostensibly Aaron 3) must remember what originally happened with the original Abe in his own particular timeline. Put simply, I see Granger's condition as internally dependent upon Abe's timeline, not on his own conflicting future, due to an infinitely occurring inconsistency. Birds? This might be a problem since it requiers that hooded Aaron enters the failsafe box after that incidient. It strikes at the heart of the complexity of Carruth's time travel. Great article. I have a few questions, if anyone could help :) Being stuck in a loop for 35 years, in which the people actually age, you can imagine how many books these people have amassed. Again, paradoxes don't operate the way they usually do in time travel stories. Abe tries to figure out how, exactly, the device does what it does - and he fails. He probably has no use for such a large time machine himself, but I'm sure that the military would love to have technology like that on such a large scale and would pay whatever it takes for it.